[Ms Amber Red]

Hey guys, thank you for joining us for an episode on Inspired by Ms. Amber Red, and I am here today with a very special guest. I'm going to let her introduce herself and yeah, tell us why she's such a badass.

[Speaker 1]

How much time do we have?

[Ms Amber Red]

Okay.

[Kara Gutierrez]

What's up guys? My name is Cara Gutierrez and I am a badass period, but I know I, so I am a traditional tattooer who also got into permanent makeup. I am currently here in Missouri, Kent city, Missouri.

So I own a tattoo shop. I've been in the industry for over a decade and I'd like to say I'm like deep in the permanent makeup and body art world. So the best thing I could say is I could represent both sides and I could see both sides of, of a tattoo world in that way.

And I got a little different twist of what I do and how I approach it because of my significant other and his expertise in medicine because he's a medical doctor. So I spend a lot of time on why and let's prove it respectfully. And a lot of things in her makeup world, I've been able to use my boyfriend on helping out the why, especially cause I teach and I'm a tattoo teacher.

[Ms Amber Red]

Literally that was probably one of the best things that I've been a part of was coming to your areola training. And then he did a whole half day, I think it was a morning that he did that like medical and like, you know, went over the pre-screening form and like the why's behind everything. Cause you know, for the most part, like I've, I had a good mentor, so I know a lot of the stuff from behind, like behind the scenes and the why's of things.

But on the flip side of that was like, Oh, okay, this is like really like, it makes sense. Like, so that was very beneficial.

[Kara Gutierrez]

Thank you. I appreciate that. I was like to say, can anyone stump him?

And I'm like, please stump him and ask questions that make him think.

[Ms Amber Red]

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Um, what's funny, and this is kind of off topic a little bit, but I have Brisa here with me because she's always asking me like, Amber, what's it like to like use a mag? Cause I used to use mags on lips for like the first four years when I just switched around triggers. And then a video popped up today on Instagram of yours and you were using a big old mag on a lip.

And I immediately, I was like, send it over to Brisa. I'm like, Brisa, Brisa. I'm like, she's doing it.

I was like, that's exactly how you use a mag on the lips. So that was really fun.

[Kara Gutierrez]

I love it. I was like, why are you using a mag? Like, I don't know, 10 years ago or so.

And I'm like, why else? Why wouldn't you use a mag? And I was like, am I stupid?

Am I an idiot? I just know how to use the different tools.

[Ms Amber Red]

So yeah, no, exactly. And, um, cut your time like in half. Well, at least in half, I would say.

Um, but yeah. About 15 minutes to do lips. So literally.

Yeah. The other day. And I'm like, I think I just take longer.

Like, I think I take, in my head, I take longer than what I actually do. I like time myself the last two full faces. So brows, eyeliner, and lips the last two times.

I'm like, I'm at like four and a half hours. I'm like for brows, eyeliner, and lips. I'm like, dang, I am making some moves.

I'm like, finally, I know what I'm doing.

[Ms Amber Red]

Good for you.

[Ms Amber Red]

Brisa's like, it's taking me two hours to do a lip. And it's like, oh, yeah, it's normal. You'll get there.

You'll get there, dude. You'll get there. And it's not really about the time.

Like, I just, I get excited about stuff like that. Cause like, I'll look at the schedule and I'm like, the schedule says, you know, cause I still, I'm not too good on that admin stuff. So I'm like, the schedule says I'm supposed to be working until six, but really it's like 2.30 and I'm like, fuck yeah. Like, I'm done early day. Yeah. Totally.

I appreciate that. So yeah.

[Kara Gutierrez]

So what do you, what do you want to chat about today? I'm so excited. How many episodes can we stretch this out to?

I don't know.

[Ms Amber Red]

You guys.

[Kara Gutierrez]

I kind of feel like. Have you ever heard the saying? When you're dating someone, you've got to mend the heart that you didn't break.

Well, I am. So when I dove into. Traditional body art first.

And then I dove into permanent makeup and I have the respect for both sides. I dove into both and they both are, they have their strong points and I'm like, wait, but then this, you know, I'm, I'm over here trying to do that. So.

So about culture. I really wanted to talk about the culture and body art. Versus the culture and permanent makeup.

And. We need to just quit the bitch in and respect each culture and maybe add a little bit of this culture into that. And that a little bit, this culture into that.

And that's what I'm trying to do. So maybe to debunk some stuff too. No, no.

Like I said, I'm, I'm, I'm very much into both worlds where. How can I say this? I have respectfully some of the most bad-ass people, super famous, awesome people on camera and behind the scenes people.

That are some of my dearest folks, like, you know, you Amber, Taryn. And, you know, Mary Richardson, there's other, you know, big wigs and issue. I'm just kind of.

And then I've got in the body art world where. We're doing a lot with some big, like ever after. Sponsored by them, my best friend, Liz cook.

And then we've got some really awesome connections with Sean Brown, APT. Sean Brown. With eternal Inc.

Ben Shaw. You know, With just a PT and it's just like, I've got the highest of the flipping high people. And I respect them and know them, you know, On a personal level to where I'm like, bro.

Like we all are saying the same thing, but different. And we need to come together.

[Ms Amber Red]

I was just going to say my question, I guess, for you then is, where do you think that division started? Like, why is there a division between both worlds? And be honest.

I don't know. Because it's the same thing. It's a tattoo, right?

So that baseline it's a tattoo.

[Kara Gutierrez]

I will say the first day it's, it is a tattoo. And no, and it is permanent. For sure.

Girl, I was here waiting. I made some notes. Did you know me?

I'm going to keep going. How long do we have? So I just want to say the first thing is.

The first thing is. The history, like the rich history and culture. That.

Tattoo body art world has, and then the permanent makeup has, it starts off with the purpose and functionality of it. The purpose of body art. Is so long.

And the reason. And then the purpose of permanent makeup. And the reason could still be long.

But the purpose of permanent makeup. And having that. You know, understanding first.

We are not in the same world in that way. Respectfully again, respectfully. And.

Yeah, there's a lot of, you know, fuck you and tattoo world. And a lot of her, my last email. And.

Yeah. And one is not better than the other. I mean, like I said, just.

Social perception and stuff like that too. It's just, we gotta do, we have to have respect because we have to have the same things like safety, sanitation, proper. Communication with the clients and all that stuff too.

So it started from day one. Really. Day one is just totally different.

Yeah.

[Ms Amber Red]

Yeah. What do you say? Like, I feel like I struggle a little bit.

And this is, I mean, I don't have the body art background, so I struggle a little bit. With, so this is like me. Okay.

So take me out of like even doing permanent makeup, but just as somebody is like looking in, I feel like I struggle with, like, you know, I see on the learning boards all the time. And I'm sure I'm like, sure you see it too, but it's like, how would you respond to this person? There's like, a lot of this like handholding, like candy coating, like this, this crap that I'm like in body tattoo.

And like, they're not going to be like, oh, come here. Like we'll finish the next session. Like, I'm sorry.

It hurts. Like, no, it's, it's still like, I'm like that. That's like one of my biggest frustrations.

Like I'm trying to remove myself from like, just as an outsider, like looking in, but I'm like, I see constantly. That's like, oh, I didn't get this because you know, it hurt too much and I'm going to get it on touch up. And oh, well, she felt a little pain or this.

I'm like, okay. But like, it's, it's. Like, you're going to feel something.

So I don't know like where that came from, I guess. I'm like, I, I really struggle with that. Cause I, you know, I train a lot of people too.

And it's like, they come in and they're like, I just didn't finish the procedure because such and such and such. And I'm like, okay, but second session at touch up, she's still gonna feel something. And it's going to be the same exact situation.

And she's still going to bleed. Like, so you stopped, like I'm confused.

[Kara Gutierrez]

Like, So it's all boils down to the training with, you know, a, a traditional tattoo apprenticeship. There is really, I taught how to do a permanent makeup tattoo apprenticeship and, and I was trying to teach them how to do it. And what I went through ups and downs.

And it just seems like that hard work is, Is too much because it's so much pull back. Cause I was like, Hey, everybody stop. Basically.

Learn yourself. Then get this. And it, it didn't really go off until I kind of like linked up with my friend, Liz, Liz cook.

And we're working on sort of a deal where we're training. And getting more education out there properly. And it's going to be a lot of stop training.

Stop doing what you're doing. Rewind and a lot of people are going to get offended. So that's going to be a challenge.

And it starts with that day one. The way that it's handled. And learning what to do and what not to do.

Cause it's such a steadfast industry and a money-making deal. PMU PMU. So the culture is different.

Yeah. And if, if we really want to be equal as more of respect equally. Yeah.

It. You got to have to see where they're coming from. Both sides.

You know, it's so different now. Cause you got your house tattooers. You got your.

You know, jail house tattooers. Yeah. People that have crossbred, everything, man.

This industry is so young. It's old. It's centuries and centuries old.

But now we've got business. You've got money. We've got taxes FDA's getting in this shit.

APT is helping with that a lot and They're they're kind of getting it into it an SPCP, you know, I had dinner a couple weeks ago With Ben Shaw and we were sitting next to him me and Erie. We're talking y'all don't know FDA is trying to get in our shit They're trying to get in to the perm The tattoo industry saying that our tattoo machines are actually Medical devices and we inject ink so there's so much we're so young but yet We're we're holding on to something that's like gatekeeping now. Just let it let it go come with the times let's start get some education a lot of pullback and Let's change the culture in the tattooing with our electric crayons Right now just start start start now man, and some of y'all just gonna have to bite the bullet and pull back pull back a lot

[Ms Amber Red]

I'm like, I kind of feel like people need to be a little bit So I'm like, I think there needs to be more bluntness more rawness like more like in your face like, you know, respectfully

[Kara Gutierrez]

Like my last email

[Ms Amber Red]

For my last email Girl oh my god

[Kara Gutierrez]

Really like the social perception That is that's a first place to start off with with the culture Not just Behind the scenes. I feel a lot of people are gonna watch this who are already tattooers, especially if they're following me They're gonna be a lot of traditional tattooers on my page. I have a lot of clients So do you so speaking to the other humans who aren't deep in the industry like us, you know, PMU is more Acceptable it's more socially, you know, okay, so to speak and it's just it's better now with body art But with permanent makeup Because it's more socially acceptable more people are actually being okay with it

[Ms Amber Red]

Are you getting do you still cuz I saw the handful of clients like, you know older ladies in particular that come in and they're Like oh like I didn't tell Susie like I just wanted you know I just woke up like this type of look like are you still getting that or have you felt cuz I still get that but I'm like do you feel and it's weird cuz actually being in Las Vegas you would think it'd be less But I do still get those clients like I didn't want to tell so-and-so I didn't you know My husband doesn't know like he thinks I'm at the dentist like I get that like on the regular basis So I'm like I do think obviously it is more acceptable than like having body tattoos and like, you know, whatever But like especially with the older clientele, but it's it it's funny to me that they're still going to those extremes to being like Oh, no, like my brows aren't tattooed like they just I'm just like, okay like

[Kara Gutierrez]

Do you find those down to the function it's it's the purpose and the function of It's just the purpose of permanent makeup a lot of people approach it more like HIPAA, which is like hey, hush-hush I want to be discreet.

I'm very well known You know to to I guess for discreet soft Natural healed results. I post a shit ton of healed results not before and afters all y'all PM viewers start posting Healed results anything with body art S&P Restoration tattoos ink into skin. You hear me start posting healed results.

Can we make that a Warm across the board and then showing like you amber. Here's a reality of an eyeliner bruise You know much for that constantly.

[Ms Amber Red]

I'm like, I think I posted something yesterday. I'm like on the on the story I was like, okay Like if somebody tells you that that bruising is not normal and like you did something wrong I'm like, okay, everybody's skin react differently and they're lying to you

[Kara Gutierrez]

Yeah, stop with the damn editing like if you edit the hell out of your stuff especially if you're a teacher that means you suck and you need to stop because you need to show your real stuff and Nowadays this world needs we're really hardcore.

I'm like, give me the truth. Give me the truth We already know there's a lot of you know, made-up stories. So look it's so easy to to Edit, so yeah, there's there is editing in traditional body art in that culture as well better, you know more vivid cameras so in that way Just be more real but it is I don't know like the stigmas.

[Ms Amber Red]

That's what I was going to I Was gonna say so some of that does crossover. So like as far as like we see Recently, I saw an eyebrow online that was like so it was edited to such perfection that even I was like is that it was Weird cuz I was like is that it has to be edited? I'm like, that's of course edited and then I was like, wait a second.

And then so I'm in the comments I'm like, okay. Yeah, it's edited but they did such a good job editing it I was like, oh my god Like maybe people are really like thinking that this is how this is gonna look when they leave like it was I was the most beautiful.

[Kara Gutierrez]

I've ever seen but of course at that point it was like Yeah, no, I think that's where it comes down to your followers on your specific platforms they need to be educated and other people just need to be louder and start talking about that all of these people that have followers that are Bunch of bunch of bunch of followers. It is so simple start talking about The photos being edited simple start saying post healed results, these are healed results and eventually you're gonna get healed results that have been edited and That's just a part of the the cycle of advertising because money we make a lot of money in this In the tattoo cross-the-board industry and it's a it's all about sales, man

[Ms Amber Red]

It's actually not a bad idea. I don't think I've ever done that before. I kind of want to take like a Well, I've never I really have never edited a photo, but I'm too lazy Barely want to put together a collage But it's actually not a bad idea is to take a brow find that beautiful brow photo that I was talking about and not to Bash anybody but like hey, here is an edited photo This is literally just off my camera phone and like put them side by side.

That's actually a really good idea I've never done that before.

[Kara Gutierrez]

So, thank you. I love here the approach not to bash anybody We need to be a little bit more unapologetic because you know, we're not we're not bashing anyone and the point of this is the culture it at whole and what we're doing and what we're we're needing to leave it better than we found it and A lot of rich culture history is respect in the traditional body art world Even if you you know, if you've been in You know 20 30 40 years even that you we we should respect them and we have to respect them the ones that paved the way and We should leave it better and not just shit on them because they they're not as good as us Well without them, we wouldn't know what some bad is. So we've just got to show that respect no matter what and a lot of permanent makeup artists that are you know, five To still five to ten years.

They've been in you know, and they I would say a good five five to seven years They're they're still like, okay. I'm the shit and the way that that I'm the shit is is like I've experienced with people in the traditional body art world. That's been in for 20 30 years That sort of air that I'm seeing out of permanent makeup artists who are just five to ten years You five to ten years.

You just really getting started. You're really feeling confident and then you know What's we're talking about and how to communicate to your clients which in return makes you more confident because you could do those healed results My results are why I'm more confident every day years in I finally like it's I always say to the girls It's like they'll be having us, you know, you do apprenticeships as well.

[Ms Amber Red]

So I'm like I feel like I see with them It's like this isn't working. This isn't working. This is where I'm like, yeah, but you don't have the puzzle pieces yet Like it's like you hit a certain like I feel like okay ten years in is great But it's like now I finally feel like okay this piece over here and this piece over here I can grab them and connect them together to come up with a solution to a problem Whereas if I'm three years in I can't I have may have the pieces but I haven't been able to like connect those dots yet So it's it's like yeah

[Kara Gutierrez]

You know what I say I say it's like cooking in someone else's kitchen If I was a traveling chef and I traveled all over the world and I just got into someone's kitchen I have all these memories of that pot that pan.

That's a spice. Did you go into my house? You gonna see it says garlic powder, but we put some cayenne pepper in there.

We just reuse it I'm you know, Louisiana. We use stuff like that So you have to have all of the moving parts and awareness of what you're doing and you're just not you know They're not there yet and Amber you and a lot of other girls who've been in the industry You know, that's not 20 plus years. We'll say I've done it right to where your learning cup is never full.

You don't have this snobby attitude and You're willing to be right or be wrong and the way you approach it is all it's just about the damn approach dude Just respect Respect all around we're Millennials, bro When you when I was there, are you still doing apprenticeships?

[Ms Amber Red]

Okay, I know four years long I have four years for apprenticeship That's how ours is too. So Brisa's I think she's like three years Are you three years in now almost three years in but there's a big difference like I know that I candy coat Like my approach is candy like and I'm getting I'm getting better I'm recognizing that I'm candy coating ship more but your approach was way different when I was there like She's no fucking joke Brisa. You're I remember when you told me What did I do?

What did I do? But I'm like you just like straight to the point I like and I'm like, oh fuck like every time I'm like straight to the Point like that. I do I come I I'm like, oh, I'm sorry.

Like I shouldn't have said it like that. I do don't I Brisa? Yeah, like I'll come back to Brisa and I'm like, I'm sorry I shouldn't have said it that way but I'm like no fuck that cuz sometimes you do need to hear it, you know You just need to hear it direct sometimes

[Kara Gutierrez]

You know your delivery doesn't have to be rough It's just how you are whoever it is and the skill alone if taught properly given the okay You've got this long to do X skill They're gonna be hard on themselves. They're gonna do all of that a few shit themselves You need as any human should be teaching others the basics of what we're doing is we're tattooing changing the color of people's skin and And And when we're changing the color of people's skin, we have to realize what we're actually, you know safety sanitation You know and other cultures. They don't have all that stuff, you know and tattoos and in different countries and my teaching my Country the way I'm teaching my it's our culture You have what's called a shop culture and in my culture my shop.

I'm mom. They call me mom Because sometimes you're like, hey mom won't do this and sometimes it's like mom help and that's why we do that You know, I'm tattoo mom and for the first six months They're just cleaning and organizing and breaking down setting up and all they're doing is being able to so to speak Breaking down setting up with their eyes closed like they can do that and they're so hardcore on that They're excited because you know why I told him in the beginning I gave them the syllabus and then you signed up for it and you signed my four-year contract You knew what you got into and if you leave my contract if you leave for any reason You can't come back ever because There's lots of people in the world and a lot of time and my shop culture and my clients that I have We make sure that you you are protected and we cultivate that and and I mean it it just we're family We're hardcore family and that's how it is in tattoo in my experience I'll never not have a place to stay or a shop.

That's not tattoo out of We really respect one another and we are unapologetic and we don't

[Ms Amber Red]

Feel like you could have a whole conversation on just that like, okay, cuz I feel like I'm permanent makeup It's like sometimes I mean you may feel like you're walking You know like say you're with the permanent makeup studio and you decide to leave you may feel like you're walking on eggshells like I feel like in Like in the permanent makeup world per se like there's a lot of that Cattiness out there and it's like it's not as welcoming like you're like, oh, I'd welcome, you know complete your contract I'll welcome you back come, you know Probably guess bought at my place if you do this like you're it's like a family, right?

like but in the permanent makeup You went ahead and you're doing and you're moving on and you're doing this like fuck you like and it's like it shouldn't be that

[Kara Gutierrez]

Well in my personal shop are what I have as a rule is you can't come back because my experiences and other people's shops and even my own I've I've I've seen people

[Ms Amber Red]

Person come back if they completed their four years like if they wanted to if they went off and tried it So here's a here's a here's a question if they completed their four years and they went off and tried to like do their own thing and they're like You know what? I tried it. It's not for me You know, I really love the setup that you had.

Can I come back and be an artist at your studio? Can they come back? Yes or no?

[Kara Gutierrez]

This is why so when you go to an apprenticeship you want to You know learn respect You know beg borrow steal and get every single thing that you can from Your mentor and then once you've done that you stay there and you show them respect that thank you for showing me all this stuff and Unless they're just extremely abusive and harassing you and you know, you have a really ugly mentor Doug Oh, why the fuck would you want to come back if you have somebody who's taught you and Has dove into you If you stay there, you know and you show that respect and if you were doing it, right you'd like hey you want to make this grow even more and bring something to the table and have some fiduciary responsibilities and Make it bigger and grander because we're stronger as a team And if you leave my shop everyone who's left my shop when I feel like I've really like I'm getting the hand know what? I want now they leave but They leave because you know They're going a different direction in life or they lied to their husband or significant other that They aren't gonna get paid right off the bat and they're not gonna get all this money So setting up your apprentice with what to actually expect and in tattoo culture It's a little bit more known that yeah, you're gonna have to Take shit and not get paid But it is slowly you're getting more into You know business deals and stuff like that, but you don't want to just for your contracts means I'm teaching you and you can't go anywhere else and then you should stay for life because we're a family and If not, if you do it, right, let me assist you. Let me help you.

How can I? How can I be helped to you because you don't have to own 51% of the company to own the fucking company, right?

[Ms Amber Red]

You know that growth and support that growth I think is important because I think that doesn't happen I think that's where like it's like a lot of people will have these, you know, three four or five year contracts And it's like at the end of that contract. It's like, okay now stay but stay commissioned as well You're like you're gonna stay only making $30 Stuff doesn't work because somebody's going to want to continue growth, you know in in in their selves I mean, well, they should want to you know Little bit so that that feels nice hearing that from you.

[Kara Gutierrez]

I like that I just want to say thank you, and I'm I've really blessed I have a master's in business and I realized how y'all need to get some business education for your shop culture for your culture in general because if you're smart you're going to Pour in to them. That's why my you know, my tatter tots my apprentices. I'm mom So what am I gonna do just like teach my kids they get the fuck out like that's not what you should do It's I wanted to teach you and then I want to grow this family and Grow it and be the best and have that trust and a lot of tattooers do not come from good backgrounds stereotypically, you know, it's just does not and I just want people to know like don't get your shit and learn and leave Because you got to do a lot more bumps and a lot more failures Grow together because as a person who wants to get apprentices you learn your skill you kick ass at it and Then you find someone that matches your energy your vibe Someone that you look up to as a person and you test that you could trust them through those four years and don't stress yourself out being an asshole and if you're an asshole go get some therapy and fucking Stop being a dick and and really just pour into those people And then they're gonna want to pour into you and the entire way say this is our clear vision.

Are you still on it? Awesome? Absolutely our clear vision.

Are you good? Stay there grow and just keep going and if that person who you're growing with They aren't on your on your level. They're not on the same grind.

They want something different Then you should have known throughout the entire way. You're gonna see shading this as you as you go You're gonna learn how to see it.

[Ms Amber Red]

Yeah, absolutely. I agree I think a lot of like it's just like with mentorships and like apprenticeships and the thing it's almost like money money money Okay, it's turn turn turn like it's how many can we get in? How many can we release?

How many can we get in? How many release I'm like you can do that But you can only do that for so long and it's not gonna grow your business, right? Like it's not gonna create this community create this like culture that you're trying to build up like you